Sorcerers - let's discuss skills !

[Callsign]

Originally Posted by ablueman Hang on, You can use any skill from any skill tree with any weapon, however you CANT use a weapon specific skill unless your using that weapon. At least thats my understanding. I could be wrong but I am fairly sure thats what I was seeing in the beta. If your sure thats true then I will be significantly changing my build lol. As far as the ultimate, I only used negate magic which was useful, but i think at least initially I will be swapping it out for Storm Atronach. It tanks and does dmg. AoE if you morph it right..

You can use weapon skills with any weapon, but you cannot benefit from the passives in a weapon tree unless you are using that weapon. It would be pretty bad on their part if they said you could not use any skill outside out your class skills and weapon that you have equipped. It would ruin one of the main features of the game. I can see it said from players now. You mean I have to have a Resto staff equipped to heal myself?

However, the tanking style that I am building for would benefit considerably more to have a range taunt as my "spam" attack is ranged, and melee would get damaged by the shield effect. It's something to look into, but I won't know until I actually get this build set up in game, one of the deciding factors for man builds out there.

I'm not sold on the Storm Atronach as an Ultimate for a tank. It has a small radius and would require enemies to be stacked to get the full benefit, which is unlikely to happen with how the AI works in the game. I would rather use the Mage's Guild Ultimate morphed to Ice Comet that would knockback and snare targets for control. It has a similar range, but once again, may benefit more on the build that I chose. The benefits of Absorption Field are more situational. Sure there is a stun and silence effect, but the dispel effect requires enemies to put down placed effects on a consistent enough basis to benefit from the 15% health and magicka return.

[ablueman]

Originally Posted by Callsign You can use weapon skills with any weapon, but you cannot benefit from the passives in a weapon tree unless you are using that weapon. It would be pretty bad on their part if they said you could not use any skill outside out your class skills and weapon that you have equipped. It would ruin one of the main features of the game. I can see it said from players now. You mean I have to have a Resto staff equipped to heal myself? However, the tanking style that I am building for would benefit considerably more to have a range taunt as my "spam" attack is ranged, and melee would get damaged by the shield effect. It's something to look into, but I won't know until I actually get this build set up in game, one of the deciding factors for man builds out there. I'm not sold on the Storm Atronach as an Ultimate for a tank. It has a small radius and would require enemies to be stacked to get the full benefit, which is unlikely to happen with how the AI works in the game. I would rather use the Mage's Guild Ultimate morphed to Ice Comet that would knockback and snare targets for control. It has a similar range, but once again, may benefit more on the build that I chose. The benefits of Absorption Field are more situational. Sure there is a stun and silence effect, but the dispel effect requires enemies to put down placed effects on a consistent enough basis to benefit from the 15% health and magicka return.

That clears up my understanding, I think I assumed the passives situation was for active too. Thanks

Still considering race for mine. I think the little extra dmg possible with High Elf sells it over Breton. But I am wondering if with the softcap on regens etc, whether either breton or high elf will be worth it. Should I get racials that beef up my secondary regens that I want or adds to health recovery. Or will I regret it as the regen scales up and I want to put extra on mana regen.

I wonder what the max magicka regen will be at 50 and if you can hit it without racials / sorc skills and Equipment. Can I afford to split focus maybe go redguard or nord or imperial or something strange. lol

If you could pump mana and stamina regen enough you could really improve Dark Exchange and get massive healing / mana though that. You only need to be able to hit Dark Exchange every 10 seconds or so and you can refill your health and mana pretty much.

Will racial healing or skills affect incoming health from that? 1200 health a second is massive even without +5% here and there.

[Callsign]

Originally Posted by ablueman That clears up my understanding, I think I assumed the passives situation was for active too. Thanks Still considering race for mine. I think the little extra dmg possible with High Elf sells it over Breton. But I am wondering if with the softcap on regens etc, whether either breton or high elf will be worth it. Should I get racials that beef up my secondary regens that I want or adds to health recovery. Or will I regret it as the regen scales up and I want to put extra on mana regen. I wonder what the max magicka regen will be at 50 and if you can hit it without racials / sorc skills and Equipment. Can I afford to split focus maybe go redguard or something strange. lol

Breton is definitely the go to race for spellcasters or heavy magicka users. Magicka recovery is easily capped, making High Elf lackluster, while magicka cost reduction seems to have no cap. In the long run at level 50 with gear, racials will mean something to a certain extent, but if you are beating yourself over whether to play a race you love over a race that has better passives, go with the race that you love. Racials won't matter that much.

[ablueman]

Originally Posted by Callsign Breton is definitely the go to race for spellcasters or heavy magicka users. Magicka recovery is easily capped, making High Elf lackluster, while magicka cost reduction seems to have no cap. In the long run at level 50 with gear, racials will mean something to a certain extent, but if you are beating yourself over whether to play a race you love over a race that has better passives, go with the race that you love. Racials won't matter that much.

I have no race I really love, im all about the passives. But as you say if its a passive that can be capped, my gut feeling is that its worthless getting that racial and that you will be able to cap it in another way.

If you cant cap spell reduction cost that does sound great, but will you need to reduce cost if you can just spam dark exchange and get the benefit of even greater health recovery.

You can enchant spell cost reduction cant you ?

[Callsign]

Originally Posted by ablueman You can enchant spell cost reduction cant you ?

Hard to say. http://www.esohead.com/items/26614-g...ent-of-magicka would suggest maximum Magicka is increased, but there does not seem to be a magicka reduction enchantment.

[Callsign]

Originally Posted by ablueman If you could pump mana and stamina regen enough you could really improve Dark Exchange and get massive healing / mana though that. You only need to be able to hit Dark Exchange every 10 seconds or so and you can refill your health and mana pretty much. Will racial healing or skills affect incoming health from that? 1200 health a second is massive even without +5% here and there.

I believe that Dark Exchange is a must and staple to any heavy Magicka build that a Sorcerer may have. It is just way to good to pass up and it is probably the best magicka return in the game, by far. A larger stamina pool won't mean anything with the ability as it converts by percentage, but a player is going to need a certain level of Stamina regen in order to have infinite resources.

I don't think it is worth rolling a race like Redguard for Stamina regen, as Magicka reduction will mean more in the long run.

[ablueman]

Originally Posted by Callsign I believe that Dark Exchange is a must and staple to any heavy Magicka build that a Sorcerer may have. It is just way to good to pass up and it is probably the best magicka return in the game, by far. A larger stamina pool won't mean anything with the ability as it converts by percentage, but a player is going to need a certain level of Stamina regen in order to have infinite resources. I don't think it is worth rolling a race like Redguard for Stamina regen, as Magicka reduction will mean more in the long run.

I do understand that its done on percentage. What im more interested in is whether you will need spell reduction so much at level 50. When you will have such a large pot and such a high amount of magicka incoming from dark exchange. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Will you be in Daggerfall or are you going to be in another alliance, it would be interesting to play alongside you in some ways and see how different they are

Originally Posted by Callsign Hard to say. http://www.esohead.com/items/26614-g...ent-of-magicka would suggest maximum Magicka is increased, but there does not seem to be a magicka reduction enchantment.

Im sure I enchanted something, I think it was 6 points less or something not a % though

[Callsign]

Originally Posted by ablueman I do understand that its done on percentage. What im more interested in is whether you will need spell reduction so much at level 50. When you will have such a large pot and such a high amount of magicka incoming from dark exchange. I guess we will have to wait and see. Will you be in Daggerfall or are you going to be in another alliance, it would be interesting to play alongside you in some ways and see how different they are

As a Sorcerer tank, the amount of spell reduction you will get from a Breton will be nice, but not game changing. I think the Magicka reduction from Breton on abilities will help with your Stamina over time. Less cost on abilities means more time for Stamina to regen, so it may naturally balance itself and may have been a design intention.

I am going to be rolling Aldmeri Dominion with some friends at the start. However, I plan on making my first cross faction alt for the Daggerfall Covenant. I am most likely going to be rolling a Templar tank to begin with, but I thought I would theorycraft all of the tanks and see what kind of styles and builds I could come up with. This is my current Templar build. I find it rather strong, having the ability to useful is almost every situation without giving up anything. It's a full Stamina build, where as the Sorcerer is a full Magicka build.

I'll be posting my ideas and builds on the officials forums when the game launches, in class, tanking, and healing forums (I do have plans to do some healing). Two abilities I see as a must for Sorcerer tanking are Dark Exchange for Magicka and Health regen when needed and Force Shock in the Desto Staff tree because it provides so many benefits that are useful for Sorcerer tanking within the ability on top of it being a ranged ability.

[ablueman]

Originally Posted by Callsign As a Sorcerer tank, the amount of spell reduction you will get from a Breton will be nice, but not game changing. I think the Magicka reduction from Breton on abilities will help with your Stamina over time. Less cost on abilities means more time for Stamina to regen, so it may naturally balance itself and may have been a design intention. I am going to be rolling Aldmeri Dominion with some friends at the start. However, I plan on making my first cross faction alt for the Daggerfall Covenant. I am most likely going to be rolling a Templar tank to begin with, but I thought I would theorycraft all of the tanks and see what kind of styles and builds I could come up with. This is my current Templar build. I find it rather strong, having the ability to useful is almost every situation without giving up anything. It's a full Stamina build, where as the Sorcerer is a full Magicka build. I'll be posting my ideas and builds on the officials forums when the game launches, in class, tanking, and healing forums (I do have plans to do some healing). Two abilities I see as a must for Sorcerer tanking are Dark Exchange for Magicka and Health regen when needed and Force Shock in the Desto Staff tree because it provides so many benefits that are useful for Sorcerer tanking within the ability on top of it being a ranged ability.

I will prob be going Ebonheart, strangely enough I preferred the starting zone though most people complained it wasn't as good as the dominion zone. Although in fairness, I have no friends (sadface) that are looking to play this game really so it doesn't matter too much if I change my mind.

I might have to look in to that skill, I ignored it previously as I didnt really want to get stuck with a desto staff. Now I realise I can have active abilities without I may reconsider. It does look immensely useful, looks like the morph of it can even CC up to 2 additional targets potentially.

I dont mind having a resto staff as a swap out. I will be doing some backup healing potentially.



Any idea how unholy knowledge might affect Dark Exchange?

p.s. Templar build looks interesting

[Callsign]

Originally Posted by ablueman I will prob be going Ebonheart, strangely enough I preferred the starting zone though most people complained it wasn't as good as the dominion zone. Although in fairness, I have no friends (sadface) that are looking to play this game really so it doesn't matter too much if I change my mind. I might have to look in to that skill, I ignored it previously as I didnt really want to get stuck with a desto staff. Now I realise I can have active abilities without I may reconsider. I dont mind having a resto staff as a swap out. It does look immensely useful, looks like the morph of it can even CC up to 2 additional targets potentially.

It's quite a good skill that has a ridiculous amount of benefits and it works quite well in my Sorcerer tank build that will be using the Destro staff. I've been looking at my Sorcerer tank build closer since we started talking and I think it does work better as a ranged control tank. I altered the build a little bit to reflect on that mentality. Range taunt + Ice Comet provides more control without having to run up to enemies to use the melee taunt or wait for enemies to have ground effects to dispel from Negate Magic.

[Callsign]

Originally Posted by ablueman Any idea how unholy knowledge might affect Dark Exchange?

I think it will. Too far down to test it in beta, but I think it will. I'm also wondering if Persistence will affect Dark Exchange too. I think it's highly unlikely, but there is always a chance.

[Vuelhering]

Originally Posted by Callsign You can use weapon skills with any weapon, but you cannot benefit from the passives in a weapon tree unless you are using that weapon. It would be pretty bad on their part if they said you could not use any skill outside out your class skills and weapon that you have equipped. It would ruin one of the main features of the game. I can see it said from players now. You mean I have to have a Resto staff equipped to heal myself?

You have that backwards. Weapon-specific skills cannot be used without that weapon equipped. If this were not the case, why would you ever swap weapons? To heal yourself, you can use one of the many skills most classes have to heal. In the case of sorc, they're limited on healing and yeah, they might have to equip a resto staff. That's why you can switch weapons at 15.

Do you really think you can do, e.g., a critical charge while wielding your staff instead of a 2Her? You can't.

As far as passives not applying, most passives are written to apply to the particular weapon, however some passives are written as if they apply to others, too.

[Blodskjegg]

I tought of choosing sorc - summoner and dual wield axe with medium armor and focus on stamina. Is that a viable build? Creatures as extra dps and just know ppl out with axes...

[Sharp]

With the amount of freedom we have on weapons and skills, has anyone looked at some high-dps builds? I am curious, as I grow towards level 50(48 currently) I am looking at streamlining my build, right now, it was just in the moment, leveling this is what I need now type build.

[Vuelhering]

Originally Posted by Sharp With the amount of freedom we have on weapons and skills, has anyone looked at some high-dps builds? I am curious, as I grow towards level 50(48 currently) I am looking at streamlining my build, right now, it was just in the moment, leveling this is what I need now type build.

My sorc is a bow/2H user, full stamina. The bow skills are nice to have, esp used from stealth where they can do huge damage, with the Mage Fury finisher. Things like crystal frag + critical charge + uppercut + another charge + mage fury are insane instant damage.

I don't yet have uppercut, though, but looks stupid on paper for single target stuff.