TTC website issues thread

[Dolgubon]

Originally Posted by cyxui 2. I failed to see why Patreon would work when Paypal donation button failed miserably hard. .

Even if it does not fully pay for it, I think a Patreon should be something to consider.For one, it's far more consistent than PayPal. Where most donations on PayPal are one time donations, Patreon is monthly. You won't be as dependent on random chance of people deciding to donate. Amount you get from Patreon per person is also probably gonna be more over time, because it's going to be a donation each month.
But the big thing is that one problem/theme with what you currently have is people thinking 'pfft this guy can't be losing money TTC is so big'
Well, Patreon can help there as well. Make a goal 'server costs are paid for, I can turn off ads' at x amount of money and suddenly, people can't as easily dismiss the claim of you losing money. You could also do another tier 'partjal server costs are paid for, anti Adblock is off'. Seeing the actual dollar amount it costs you may also prompt more people to donate.
If no one joins the Patreon? You still come out ahead, because now it's much harder for people to say you're losing money. You don't need to change anything, and if somehow it *does* pay for partial costs or full costs, well, then they win as well.


So even if it gets you $0 you still shut down quite a bit of the criticism, and gain in that sense. (I think you'll probably get some, but nowhere near enough for the entire costs. But some is better than none)

[DreamsUnderStars]

Patreon will work, it does so for many many modders as well. But if you scoff and hem and haw and don't try it, it won't.

Just don't get greedy with initial support amounts like some people do and you might be surprised.

There's been a few times where I've supported a modder and simply forgot to unsub from their patreon long after I stopped playing the game (ff14 being one)... so there's also the ADHD aspect of it lol.

Edit: I just looked at your site again, and the ads aren't *that* bad... the worst one was the popup wanting me to watch something. I find those more intrustive and annoying that the side banner and that big one at the top. My concern is sometimes ads can be hijacked and your site just turns into a host for malware and viruses - NOT saying you would do this willingly. Also I have issues with flickering/strobbing ads, I don't get seizures but they do give me migraines sometimes... if ads were just static pictures I wouldn't have problems with them at all.

[DreamsUnderStars]

Sure, but why not try patreon too? See which one is better. At least with patreon you don't have to deal with some potentially shady ad partner or offensive ad.

[drkm]

sounds good 👍

If patreon is completely optional im not sure why anyone would flame you for using it?

[Baertram]

Another way to get help would be adding info to the client e.g. Just a text line with the patreon link.
Or add the link to LibAddonMenu settings of TTC as a new submenu "Support TTC server". As it is closed Noone would be disturbed. And if you open it let it show a description control and a button that opens the website of patreon, or your website where one is able to see the info and patreon link.
I bet this would reach a lot supporters, just don't make it a disturbing pop-up or anything like this.

[AddonAddict]

The fact is, there's people who can and will happily donate, and there's people who can't or simply won't.

The question is--how much money is needed? Well, who knows, as it's all obscured for anyone but the author to see. I would suggest they set up a monthly goal to cover expenses, then prominently display that figure on the TTP website. For every dollar that is donated, a dollar gets subtracted from that amount, and the displayed figure updated in [near] real-time. If the monthly goal is met, then the service remains online, and any additional funds goes towards the following month(s). However, if the goal isn't met, then the service goes offline until the appropriate funds are raised.

This would seem to be fair to both the author and the users, would it not? Actions in the dark can appear to be sinister in nature. This can be rectified by putting everything out in the open so people can see what is needed, when it's needed, and how their donations are actually helping the site.

[Baertram]

The adds that do not popup and just stay where they are are quite big, yes, but they do not disturb me that much.
But I agree with that popup adds, they really annoy and suck! Like I press on the main website icon and a popup opens which blocks all website interaction, and only provides a very small X button, about the same color like the background? This really sucks.
Make the adds show as fixed images, remove those popups please or at least let the close button at the popups show bigger and better (who ever designed that). At least they do not show that often within the same website search and navigation...

[wookiefriseur]

The increase in "adblock users" was probably also in part due to Firefox disabling tracking by default. I always had script blocker disabled on TTC. But the ads require you to disable all tracking protection as well. I'm just too European to disable that, so I pay with money instead of paying with my blood. If there was no tracking free option I would not use it at all.

So the paid model for ad free use sounds OK to me. Premium features like price alerts (mail or push) or special search filters would be cool as well.

P2W features like first access to data or exclusive API access are problematic, not sure if I would like that. It would turn me away and I think other people too.

If the donations are enough for server upkeep you might consider some small incentives for uploaders because without them, there is no data. Small stuff like ad free "trials", bonus features or just cosmetic stuff like user tiers/levels.

If donations are not enough you could consider letting people pay for highlighting/pinning a certain amount of their auctions in the search or have them show up in a showcase box like "popular items".

@SainguinLibras

people have found data scraping scripts running

Got a source? Scraping what, where?

He's forcing people to disable anti-viruses though and is running intrusive scripts.

Where does he say to disable anti virus programs?

Don't get me wrong, your points might be valid but I have seen lots of criticisms of TTC for years and most of it was just misconceptions or lack of technical knowledge.

[SainguinLibras]

Originally Posted by wookiefriseur The increase in "adblock users" was probably also in part due to Firefox disabling tracking by default. I always had script blocker disabled on TTC. But the ads require you to disable all tracking protection as well. I'm just too European to disable that, so I pay with money instead of paying with my blood. If there was no tracking free option I would not use it at all. So the paid model for ad free use sounds OK to me. Premium features like price alerts (mail or push) or special search filters would be cool as well. P2W features like first access to data or exclusive API access are problematic, not sure if I would like that. It would turn me away and I think other people too. If the donations are enough for server upkeep you might consider some small incentives for uploaders because without them, there is no data. Small stuff like ad free "trials", bonus features or just cosmetic stuff like user tiers/levels. If donations are not enough you could consider letting people pay for highlighting/pinning a certain amount of their auctions in the search or have them show up in a showcase box like "popular items". @SainguinLibras Got a source? Scraping what, where? Where does he say to disable anti virus programs? Don't get me wrong, your points might be valid but I have seen lots of criticisms of TTC for years and most of it was just misconceptions or lack of technical knowledge.

The only evidence I have for the anti-virus is anecdotal, but I don't mention it from one person saying it happened.

There's a reddit thread where people have claimed they can't use the site without disabling their ad blockers and antivirus, and the same thing is being said on the official forums too.

I also run a 400+ social guild and at minimum 5 people have come to me saying the same thing. Our guild has been discussing this for 2 days straight now. Everyone is dropping TTC over it.

So while it's all word of mouth, a lot of mouths are reporting the same thing.

As far as the scripts go, I'm going off of the words of someone far smarter than me in this department, but they've said in all their years working within IT and web development, they've never seen such strict setups for detecting ad blockers and collecting data.

I know it might not seem like it, but I've been a fan of TTC for almost a decade now. It THE go to pricing tool in ESO.

I'm really disappointed in this turn of events, and I can only hope a course correction is coming soon.

Cause as it stands, the community at large is not happy about this.

[Shinni]

The donation I have collected over the course of the past 7 years was just barely able to pay for 2 years of the server's cost. If everyone was using adblocker it will mean that I would have paid 5 figures out of my own pocket in additional to all the free time I have spend to maintain and develop this project.

10 000/7 year = 120/month
That seems rather expensive, no wonder you need ads or payments. Are you renting a full/dedicated server? It might be worth to switch to a VPS/virtual server, because I'm not sure you will be able to cover that cost even with the new ads.

For HarvestMap I also provide a program and server to upload and download data, similar to TTC. In my case, a simple VPS that costs just 1EUR/month is enough.
I assume the additional TTC web interface requires a bit more power, but I don't think it would be much more expensive.
I rent my VPS for HarvestMap from IONOS.

[drkm]

Originally Posted by Shinni 10 000/7 year = 120/month That seems rather expensive, no wonder you need ads or payments. Are you renting a full/dedicated server? It might be worth to switch to a VPS/virtual server, because I'm not sure you will be able to cover that cost even with the new ads. For HarvestMap I also provide a program and server to upload and download data, similar to TTC. In my case, a simple VPS that costs just 1EUR/month is enough. I assume the additional TTC web interface requires a bit more power, but I don't think it would be much more expensive. I rent my VPS for HarvestMap from IONOS.

yeah this ^

sounds like there arnt many people using the site = no ad revenue, so why are the server costs so high? bots scraping the site for low prices?

sounds like it would be more cost effective to make scraping the site useless, rather than forcing ads

[cyxui]

Originally Posted by Shinni 10 000/7 year = 120/month That seems rather expensive, no wonder you need ads or payments. Are you renting a full/dedicated server? It might be worth to switch to a VPS/virtual server, because I'm not sure you will be able to cover that cost even with the new ads. For HarvestMap I also provide a program and server to upload and download data, similar to TTC. In my case, a simple VPS that costs just 1EUR/month is enough. I assume the additional TTC web interface requires a bit more power, but I don't think it would be much more expensive. I rent my VPS for HarvestMap from IONOS.

Using VPS. IDK how familiar you are with DB but allowing users to search while others are inserting takes significant amount of resource (mainly RAM and I/O) compared to just occasionally merging two data files.

Web interface is like the least resource consuming part of the whole project.

I haven't calculate the rate in quite a while. Last time I checked it was like 150-200 queries/second. I have optimized TTC numerus times. All sql queries are written using raw sql and have optimized the query plan for maximum performance. All the sql dead lock errors have been fixed. Indexes are regularly being monitored and any under used indexes are either merged or dropped. I analyzed every single query to make sure the query plan is efficient.

You can look up how much the DB part alone will cost given the I/O rate requirement.

I am pretty confident that the VPS i am using is the minimum spec with all the super deep level optimization I have made in the past few years.

[Thrasher]

Please add the Steadfast Society motifs database.

[thisisvanda]

Hi! Since Spanish has been included as an official language, are there plans to update TTC for Spanish? Thank you very much for your work!

[Octopuss]

I wouldn't mind the ads (not like I have a choice the way the website is coded now - pretty clever programming btw, not loading if adblocker is active, however that might work) if they weren't so damn obtrusive.
A banner covering like a fifth of a screen on top of the results? Ad popups that require me to click on buttons in order to display the actual website behind?
Seriously, is THIS necessary? You need to pay for servers and there are no other means of income for it, by all means, use ads, but not this.

[Octopuss]

I wouldn't mind a small banner on top of the site and another at the bottom. Heck I don't care about the side ad at all because most of it is outside of the browser window somehow (lol), but a huge banner where the results are is just too bad. Surely the placement doesn't affect how much you get paid, right? Just shove it at the bottom if not (I hope) or something...

What's this talk about scrips btw? These are (as things are right now) some non-standard ads?

[cyxui]

Originally Posted by Octopuss I wouldn't mind a small banner on top of the site and another at the bottom. Heck I don't care about the side ad at all because most of it is outside of the browser window somehow (lol), but a huge banner where the results are is just too bad. Surely the placement doesn't affect how much you get paid, right? Just shove it at the bottom if not (I hope) or something... What's this talk about scrips btw? These are (as things are right now) some non-standard ads?

It sure does. I can't provide the actual number due to Google's term but the bottom ad generates less than 1/5 of the top one for example.. Not sure what script we are talking about here

[Baertram]

cyxui:
I clicked on TTC download as the auto updater refused to work somehow, even though it was allowed and not blocked anywhere.
As I tried to download the TTC addon from the website a popup showed directly after I had clicked on the download link at the top of the website.
I did not pay attention 100% and thought I was downloading the TTC addon, but all of sudden it started to download a silly browser expansion...


There only exists a really small "Ad" info at the top left corner, and if you do not look twice and slowly you think you are going to download the just clicked TTC client.

This is really a no go and sucks big time. You can show as many website and affiliate links you want there but why is it providing an installer download as I click on the TTC download? This looks like it was intended or AI just made it look like it was. At least this was annoying.

I'm not against adverstisements but being tricked into some other software installation is just bad!

[cyxui]

Originally Posted by Baertram cyxui: I clicked on TTC download as the auto updater refused to work somehow, even though it was allowed and not blocked anywhere. As I tried to download the TTC addon from the website a popup showed directly after I had clicked on the download link at the top of the website. I did not pay attention 100% and thought I was downloading the TTC addon, but all of sudden it started to download a silly browser expansion... There only exists a really small "Ad" info at the top left corner, and if you do not look twice and slowly you think you are going to download the just clicked TTC client. This is really a no go and sucks big time. You can show as many website and affiliate links you want there but why is it providing an installer download as I click on the TTC download? This looks like it was intended or AI just made it look like it was. At least this was annoying. I'm not against adverstisements but being tricked into some other software installation is just bad!

Fair enough. Ads has been disabled on that page so it shouldnt cause anymore cases like this.

[Baertram]

Originally Posted by cyxui Fair enough. Ads has been disabled on that page so it shouldnt cause anymore cases like this.

Sorry, does not look like ads were disabled there.

https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade
Language German.
Clicked on "Erweiterung" (AddOn) at the top, then on "Herunterladen" (Download)

Screenshot from today:


The add still shows and still makes me think I need to click on that zip file of the add...